Answer one of the following questions:
Discuss this quote: “He was sometimes afraid of these thoughts and wished he
could also share their childish daily affairs with intensity, truly to take part in them,
to enjoy and live their lives instead of only being there as an onlooker.” (71)
What is love according to Siddhartha? According to Kamala? According to Govinda? What does Hesse seem to be telling us about love?
Discuss this quote: "Samsara and Nirvana are only words."
“He was sometimes afraid of these thoughts and wished he could also share their childish daily affairs with intensity, truly to take part in them, to enjoy and live their lives instead of only being there as an onlooker.”
ReplyDeleteSiddhartha feels he cannot participate with the world around him, because he is not truly apart of it. Deep in his mind Siddhartha know he has not achieve enlightenment yet, and so his soul is restless. He admires the people who have already found their life purpose or live their lives without care, because this is something he could never do himself. So he sits back and watches, admires, envies, and sometimes participates in their "childish" games with no real spiritual satisfaction. In the end, Siddhartha could never be apart with this life. This quote is a small foreshadow for not only Siddhartha's leaving of the world of riches but also Siddhartha's entering into another awakening. Though it is unknown if this awakening will be Siddhartha final, or another along his spiritual path. Either way Siddhartha is about to swing from the extreme end of sin into somewhere new in his spiritual journey.
“He was sometimes afraid of these thoughts and wished he could also share their childish daily affairs with intensity, truly to take part in them, to enjoy and live their lives instead of only being there as an onlooker.”
ReplyDeleteSiddhartha has been different his entire life. He has always considered himself unique, and has not associated with "normal" people. In a way, he feels above them, superior. Since he is more intellectual and spiritual, he feel he knows more then them. He believes their everyday lives are unimportant, and their worries and problems as trivial. His outlook on life was more improtant, and his problems actually ment something.
He chose his own path, and he is plagued by the unknown. This quote shows that Siddhartha sometimes regrets his choice, and wished he had their innocence. He believes their worries were nothing to his, and theirs would be a relief to him. He philosophical thoughts simply lead to more and more, a never ending cycle and because he has been through this, he could never join them. He will always be an onlooker. He would be torture himself, and not let him be who he needs to be. He sometime wishes he could join them, but he never can. It shows he can no longer be among them, and sets him on his path, into the unknown.
"Samsara and Nirvana are only words." (146)
ReplyDeleteSiddhartha makes the above statement when he is talking to Govinda in the final chapter of the book. He is trying to explain how Samsara and Nirvana are one and the same. Since Govinda places a lot of importance on words and thoughts, he cannot comprehend what Siddhartha is trying to say.
According to Dictionary.com, Samsara is:
“1. Buddhism . the process of coming into existence as a differentiated, mortal creature.
2. Hinduism . the endless series of births, deaths, and rebirths to which all beings are subject.”
The website defines Nirvana as:
“1. Buddhism . freedom from the endless cycle of personal reincarnations, with their consequent suffering, as a result of the extinction of individual passion, hatred, and delusion: attained by the Arhat as his goal but postponed by the Bodhisattva.
2. Hinduism . salvation through the union of Atman with Brahma; moksha.”
In the dictionary, both definitions for each word contradict the other word perfectly. Govinda wonders, how can Siddhartha, who appears to have reached Nirvana, preach about love, when Nirvana is achieving freedom from individual passion and hatred? Govinda is so caught up in the direct meanings of the words that he cannot begin to understand what Siddhartha means.
Samsara and Nirvana are words that give a set meaning to the processes of their world. Because they are words, though, they predispose anyone who hears or sees them to think or believe one set thing, when in reality, Nirvana is something different for everyone. Each person must find his own understanding of the concept the word Nirvana tries to convey. The presence of a word for the desired enlightenment causes Govinda and many others to believe that there is one answer to finding enlightenment, and that they can be given this answer by any wise teacher. Siddhartha knows that enlightenment cannot be taught, though, because words fail to do justice to the truth of the world. Govinda continues to try and rationalize the words Siddhartha throws together, because he cannot understand that opposites such as Samsara and Nirvana are only words. All things are one in the reality of their world, and the use of words only gets in the way.
“He was sometimes afraid of these thoughts and wished he could also share their childish daily affairs with intensity, truly to take part in them, to enjoy and live their lives instead of only being there as an onlooker.”
ReplyDeleteThe thoughts that Siddhartha claims to be sometimes afraid of are ones of lowering himself to the other people in the village. Though he wishes to join in and be apart of their "childish" games, and not be subjected as an onlooker or outsider, he still does not because of his superiority. Siddhartha derives these thoughts after realizing "...he was leading a strange life, that he was doing many things that were only a game, that he was quite cheerful and sometimes experienced pleasure, but that real life was flowing past him and did not touch him." (pg. 71, Siddhartha, Hesse)
This realization foreshadows Siddhartha's dive into depression as his mask of cheerfulness begins to deteriorate, and crumble. Following this, Siddhartha tries to fill this "onlooker" hole in his Self by gambling, drinking, and other vices. But these all just plunge him deeper into depression. Ultimately forcing him to leave the village and journey on to attempt fix his Self.
"Samsara and Nirvana are only words."
ReplyDeleteSiddhartha stated that no words can tell the whole truth, there is always another side to what is being told. Samsara is the continuous living in multiple beings in a never ending cycle until one reaches Nirvana which can being achieved in millions of different ways, but the word Nirvana is there only to give a standard meaning for the word that allows the mind to wrap around what Nirvana is. While the word does this, it ultimately stops one from finding "Nirvana" and Siddhartha realizes that to search for a word is as pointless as the word itself, one must allow enlightenment to find them as opposed to searching for something they will never find. While Samsara is just a word to bring about something that our mind will allow us to give reason to the word Nirvana which in turn makes them both useless words.
“He was sometimes afraid of these thoughts and wished he could also share their childish daily affairs with intensity, truly to take part in them, to enjoy and live their lives instead of only being there as an onlooker.”
ReplyDeleteSiddhartha understands that he is different from those around him. In the process of searching for his enlightenment, he cannot live life as simply as others. He considers himself above others and therefore, he is attempting to find something more than what is around him. Although, he wishes he could participate in such simplistic activity. Life is going on around him, and while he is getting a taste of it, he is not truly feeling love and easiness like the others around him. Everything he does is supposed to contribute to his journey. He still remains alone in the sense that no one else can understand his journey and because he considers himself above others and searching for more, he cannot understand the life everyone else around him lives. This was just the beginning of Siddhartha's depression as he realized that living his life or riches was not truly satisfying and would get him no closer to enlightenment. With the level his mind was at, he could never be such a simple being.
What is love according to Siddhartha? According to Kamala? According to Govinda? What does Hesse seem to be telling us about love?
ReplyDeleteIn part two, it seems that the term "love" is given many definitions. According to Siddhartha (initially), love is foolishness. He considers it as a blinding distraction from what's truly important: enlightenment through separation from such desires. Siddhartha believes in love, but does not know love and therefore dismisses it as childish. This view on love changes, however, when Siddhartha learns to "listen to the river", which ultimately teaches him that love is simply appreciation for all things and that it is best to love everything. It is then that Siddhartha finds enlightenment through love.
Likewise, to Kamala, love is real, and it is also essential to her idea of enlightenment. However, to her, love is passion. Love is found in physical and material pleasure, and, as is described several times in the book, it is an "art" that should be practiced and shared with others. It's something that should be worshiped. Without worshiping love, one cannot reach enlightenment.
Govinda's idea of love, however, is much like Siddhartha's initial concept of it in the sense that he, too, considers it foolish and distracting. Govinda, through the teachings of Gotama, has learned that love is an earthly desire that brings about nothing but pain and folly, and that love has no place in the life of a man seeking enlightenment. This leaves Govinda searching for for enlightenment that disregards love altogether.
As love is described in so many different ways in this book, it seems as if the true meaning of "love" is unclear and unknowable. Perhaps Hesse is trying to convey that love is often distorted beyond recognition by those trying to seek it, trying to create it. Perhaps love's real meaning is one much simpler than all the meanings that it is given. Of all the characters in this book, Siddhartha comes closest to the true meaning of love: appreciation and admiration for the people, things, and feelings that fill this world. Love, as complicated as it may make life, is truly this simple, and it brings forth the greatest form of enlightenment attainable.
“He was sometimes afraid of these thoughts and wished he could also share their childish daily affairs with intensity, truly to take part in them, to enjoy and live their lives instead of only being there as an onlooker.”
ReplyDeleteSiddhartha is expressing his desire to be ordinary. He still holds himself at a higher level, seeing himself as extraordinary compared to every one else. This desire is to be carefree and ignorant, and though Siddhartha is trying, he is only going through the motions, while his real self continues to live in the realm of thought and searching, ultimately leading Siddhartha to be miserable, as he can not find happiness without committing completely to one of these causes.
Once again he sets himself apart, now as an onlooker. He observes and judges all but assumes that his opinion is the indisputable truth. The problem with his observation also arises from his tunnel vision. Siddhartha throughout the book is very narrow-minded but strong willed, pushing in one direction before an epiphany spins him completely around. Once again, Siddhartha is striving towards happiness but finding nothing but emptiness.
“He was sometimes afraid of these thoughts and wished he could also share their childish daily affairs with intensity, truly to take part in them, to enjoy and live their lives instead of only being there as an onlooker.”
ReplyDeleteSiddhartha is expressing his desire to be ordinary. He holds himself to a way to high of a level compared to the ordinary person. He thinks of himself as a piece of gold. He is trying to be the ordinary person who is ignorant and carefree. He is emotionally the ordinary person yet his real self is still having a hard time being the way he wants to be. He is still in the world of thought and searching, which is amking himself miserable and tired. He is miserable because he can not find that happiness he is searching for.
He is setting himself to a much to high expectations. He is an onlooker, he observes and judges everything and believes his opinion is the truth over everything else. His problem is that he has a tunnel vision and he has one thought process, to be perfect. Siddhartha is very narrow minded but knows what he wants and he is very strong on his word and his own opinions. He is pushing in one direction before something once again happens to him. He is again going for that happiness yet not finding it, he is still empty of that thing he wants the most.
@ Mason’s “Samsara and Nirvana are only words” post:
ReplyDeleteI half-way disagree with this statement - I wouldn’t necessarily describe the words “Nirvana” and “Samsara” as “useless”. They DO provide a goal to strive towards, a reason to let go of the Self. Perhaps the words instead are more misleading than pointless. As you said, one cannot search for enlightenment. Enlightenment must find them, and it often does so in a place unexpected. I agree with you in this aspect. When one is searching for something in particular with their eyes on the prize, they unintentionally block out all other outward and potentially valuable ideas. In Siddhartha’s case, for a long time he had his mind set on Nirvana and achieving it through superiority and knowledge. However, due to this focused goal, he ignored the calls of enlightenment and was not able to find it until much later in his life when he finally gave up trying and just simply listened. So perhaps the word “enlightenment” is the useless word here. Why search for something that doesn’t exist until you exist within it?
@ arielle's post...I absolutely love the way you write, you describe everything so precisely and your wording is very unique. I do not know if being that specific is what she was looking for but you certainly knocked it out of the ball park with your deep explanation of your reasoning.
ReplyDeleteI agree completely with what you posted on "Samsara and Nirvana are only words."
This is what you had said in your blog-Siddhartha makes the above statement when he is talking to Govinda in the final chapter of the book. He is trying to explain how Samsara and Nirvana are one and the same. Since Govinda places a lot of importance on words and thoughts, he cannot comprehend what Siddhartha is trying to say.
You had said a whole lot more, I used the beginning to the blog.
Siddhartha is meaning that they are the same and they both gave him the same outcome.