Towards the bottom of page 129, the narrator tells us
Milkman wills Hagar dead and believes only one of them can live. Please explain
this section and the deeper significance of this belief. Do you believe there is an amicable way to resolve this situation or is Milkman correct? Please read your classmates' comments and respond to at least one.
From the very beginning, when Morrison first introduced Hagar and Milkman's relationship I thought it was a little odd. For one they are cousins, and also Milkman uses Hagar and she plays along with it because she truly does love him. When Milkman sends Hagar a note saying that he doesn't want to be with her anymore, she loses it. She tries to kill him. If you truly love someone, wouldn't you want what is best for them as long as they are happy? Hagar instead is selfish and wants Milkman all to herself. Milkman realizes how much Hagar looks up to him, which leads him to the assumption that one of them must die in order for this all to work out. I think this is a little over the top. Hagar should be able to get over Milkman and move on with her life. If she doesn't, Milkman wins again. I would really hate to see one of them die because their relationship didn't work out.
ReplyDeleteMiranda Murphy
Contrary to what I wrote in my response, I never really thought that Hagar is being selfish. It seems so obvious but i never truly thought it. But it makes since the way you put it. She should want him to be happy, but instead puts her desires over his. I think it is weird that none of the parents look down upon the fact that the cousins are in love or were in love. I also wonder why Hagar is so hung up on Milkman. I know that Milkman has the riches and all, but aren't there a lot of other men out there for her? I truly don't think that they will kill each other but rather realize that they are really meant for each other and maybe this will strengthen their relationship later on.
DeleteJill Christensen
Milkman and Hagar certainly do have a strange relationship. But, I think this relationship had deeper roots than what is seen from the surface. Thinking back earlier in the book, I remember that pilate states something along the lines that she knew Hagar was not like her and Reba. Hagar needed riches, hopes, dreams of the actual world. So, Pilate wanted Macon and Ruth to have a boy. A boy who would belong with Hagar and be able to give her the riches and realities of the physical world. It's not surprising that Hagar has an obsession with milkman because it's like they were meant to be before milkman was even born. On the other hand, Milkman now sees no more use in Hagar and as a result has loss interest in her. But, he knows that Hagar will not give up on him and as a results knows that this craziness of wanting to kill each other won't end until one of them actually dies. I also think that they are almost playing a game. A game in which they test who can do the most damage to one another, or even to themselves, in Milkman's case. I truly don't think this is the best way to resolve this problem, but I think it may lead to something greater, later on in the book, for the two.
ReplyDeleteThis is an awesome assumption. I never really thought about Pilate helping Ruth have Milkman as a part of her master plan for Hagar to marry someday. This could also possibly be a way for Pilate to ruffle Macon's feathers, having her granddaughter be with his son. Macon would be appalled. I agree with you and also think something big is going to happen between the two of them later in the book. I am not sure what, but can definitely sense something building up.
DeleteI've noticed that with the majority of the relationships are structurally unstable from the get go. Meaning that they were built off of unstable components in the beginning. This is true with Milkman and Hagar too. Their relationship never really made much sense. In the very beginning Milkman idolized Hagar but as time went on the tables turned. Now Hagar seems to think that she needs Milkman to even properly function. The only way that this can end without one of them dying is for them to restructure their total relationship Hagar needs to realize that Milkman really hasn't been good for her and that she can function without him. He has really hurt her and if she can come to terms with that they can both survive.
ReplyDeleteI agree that their relationship has flipped from the beginning, and that they can resolve their problems if Hagar makes personal changes, but why do you think they were unstable in the first place? Was it problematic because of Milkman's lust or because Hagar let it happen? Would their relationship be different if they weren't both still living with their families?
DeleteThis book is full of what many people think are unstable and even gross relationships. In today's society it would very weird and even disgusting that cousins were seeing each other and that is probably why most of us cringe when they talk about Milkman and Hagar having a love like that. But I think Morrison makes it so extreme to show that relationships are never perfect and she seems to keep the theme of women getting used by men and abandoned often. This is evident in how Milkman treats women, the relationship between Macon and Ruth, and with Reba and all of her guys. I think it was interesting that Morrison chose the name Hagar because the name is notorious for meaning abandonment.She makes the women depend on the men and in this case Hagar doesn't think life is worth living without Milkman and she can't breathe or do anything without him so she decides if she can't have him then no one can. This is a common reaction many people have after a break-up but most people don't go as far as trying to kill the other person. I think this relationship is like any other just exaggerated. Very exaggerated. I hope they can find a different solution but I think Hagar may end up doing something she may regret.
ReplyDeleteRachel, I liked how you laid out Morrison's themes and linked specific examples together. I would definitely agree that Hagar and Milkman are the most obvious, exaggerated example of the theme of men using women and women being extremely dependent on men. I would disagree with the prediction that Hagar is going to succeed in killing Milkman, but I also don't know how Morrison is going to wrap up Hagar's part.
DeleteRachel, you did a good job elaborating on your thoughts, not only with superficial things in the book, but with symbols and themes you noticed. I agree that the women in this book are way too dependent on the men. If I were Ruth, I would ask for a divorce or just run away in general.
DeleteNicole, I think you made very good points! However I don't think it is in either of their best interest to restructure their whole relationship because that would involve drastically changing who they are as individuals. I also hope that Hagar will realize he is no good for her and move on and hopefully find someone new.
ReplyDeleteHagar and Milkman were a bad mix from the beginning. They had too many things against them - their shared blood, the tension between families, the class difference, and an age gap. The first time Milkman saw her and claimed to love her it was out of lust, and continued to be out of lust until he broke up with her in a note. Hagar initially saw Milkman as a child, but soon he became someone who she could amaze, someone who would praise her, dote on her, and make her feel special. As they got older and Milkman lost interest, Hagar craved his devotion even more. All her hopes for a wealthy, structured, socially esteemed lifestyle were dashed. He took her youth, her future, her love and left her with a giant void. The only way she knew how to fill that void was to be around him, even if it meant he wished she was dead. I don't really see how they could coexist in the same city. Milkman has to leave. Hagar needs her family and Milkman needs to grow up.
ReplyDeleteSam,
DeleteI like how you mentioned the things that were against Hagar and Milkman instead of just saying their relationship was wrong. I also agree with you on Milkman lusting after Hagar and that Hagar was furious about loosing her dream of a privileged life. I also liked how you mentioned the things that Milkman took from Hagar without a second thought.
To me the relationship that Milkman and Hagar have is way wrong, even in society then. Milkman never truly loved Hagar he only lusted after her, and Hagar came to understand his lust as love. I wonder if Hagar at first only liked him because of his money? After Milkman ends it Hagar comes to the conclusion that if she can not have him no one can. I do not agree that only one of them can live. I feel that Milkman should have told her face to face what he was feeling instead of writing a letter. Even though their relationship is over, it does not mean that it did not happen, they are always going to have to live knowing they had the relationship they did. Knowing that can make it hard at times, so I am sure to Milkman only one of them living would make it easier.
ReplyDeleteRebecca,
DeleteI agree that Milkman should have talked to her face to face especially because the first place she found him was with another girl. He should have explained to her why he wasn't interested in continuing the relationship.
Hagar and Milkman have a very dysfunctional relationship for many reasons. They are cousins, for one, and they do not behave as a traditional couple. They do not go out as a couple, except to the movies, and do not express feelings to each other. Milkman believes that he and Hagar cannot coexist and not be together. Hagar is convinced that Milkman is her soul mate, and as long as Hagar is willing, Milkman will sleep with her. I think they need to stop the relationship. Just cut it cold, and have Pilate or another person keep them accountable not to see each other again.
ReplyDeleteOne part of me feels bad for Hagar because of the way Milkman just dismisses her, but the other part of me wants Hagar to realize that he wasn't right for her. She needs someone who cares about her and Milkman only seems to care about himself. I wonder if Hagar regrets taking him to bed with her. I think they could both live because she doesn't need him and he doesn't want her. I think that if Hagar actually killed Milkman that she would regret it right away because she would realize what she had done and she would probably kill herself after because she might think that she can't live in this world without him. I think it's unfair that Hagar was so spoiled because like Ruth, Lena, and Corinthians she thought she was better that everyone else so she doesn't have any other friends or anyone to turn to after Milkman breaks things off
ReplyDeleteThe primary reason why Hagar wants Milkman dead is that she has to kill anyone who threatens to separate them, and right now that someone is Milkman. I think at this point Milkman can never grow to love Hagar, but I think Hagar might be able to get over Milkman. Her feelings are so extreme right now because she is used to being in possession of everything she wants. As a child, she was spoiled and as a young woman she seduced Milkman in order to have a boy toy. But Milkman is not a toy, he is a man, and Hagar can't have complete control of him. She has actually surrendered herself to Milkman and the crazy love, because she calls him "her home". Her obsession also relates to the idea that everybody wants something from Milkman, especially women. However, even though he doesn't think about it, Milkman does owe a lot to women. In this way, Hagar's obsession is not exactly her fault, but somewhat due to the way Milkman treated her.
ReplyDeleteI definitely agree that Hagar's upbringing has a lot to do with how she is handling this situation. Hagar has this mentality where she cannot accept the fact that she might not be able to have something she wants. So in a way, I do not think Hagar was grown up in the right environment if it causes her to lose complete control when she cannot get something. I struggle with wondering if Hagar truly loves Milkman, or she cannot deal with the fact she cannot have him.
DeleteFrom the beginning, Hagar and Milkman's relationship was never meant to be. They had everything going against them with their gender gap, shared blood, class difference, and the deep rooted conflict within their families. Milkman's crush started off innocent enough, but it later evolved into a very selfish love. However, in a way I think Hagar was just as selfish. Hagar's desire for Milkman turned into a self-serving love; she felt Milkman was necessary for her very own existence. She could care less if Milkman was happy in the relationship, she needed him, and to her, that's all that matters. So I truly believe their was no chance in their relationship. Morrison wanted to use Hagar as an example of a powerless woman so dependent on men, that her dependence became the downfall of her existence.
ReplyDelete